Corps Stories Innovators S1E5 - Marine Collin Congleton PART 2 of 2

Corps Stories Innovators Series 1 Episode 5: Collin Congleton - Part 2 of 2

Combat Marine, Scholar, Juris Doctor, Expert marksman, law enforcement officer. 

YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/okTnbmJIDJI

YouTube version of Part 1 of 2: https://youtu.be/foyfKs7K4Pk

Transcript

Congleton Podcast PART 2

Corps Stories Ordinary Marines. Extraordinary lives. .

 Meriwether: [00:00:09] Hey everybody. Here we go to part two with Collin Congleton and you'll be inspired by him. Surely a very unusual level of intellect here,  he has great ideas about how police departments can be better served by their community, which would help them. Serve better . So I'll catch you in the backside. Thanks.

  Collin: [00:00:37] I said bitch. 

So now it was, it was basically, 

Meriwether: [00:00:41] It was on. 

Collin: [00:00:42] Now it's basically a, a dare,  And, so I had to do it. I had no choice at that point. So, I applied, I, I took the, the LSATs, kind of unprepared.  that's a whole other story that I won't waste time on, but, there, there were some interesting timing things, and I suddenly had to sit for the LSAT, without any, any preparation.

but fortunately it worked out and, 

Meriwether: [00:01:11] and you passed it. 

Collin: [00:01:12] I did. All right. I did good enough. I got in. So, I got accepted at Rutgers law school, for the class of 2019. I started in, August of 2015. went through, Rutgers law school. Has two campuses used to be two schools that are now combined as one school, but two campuses.

So I went through Rutgers Newark, which is that school. That campus is very, very proud of being the most diverse campus in America,  located in the heart of Newark, New Jersey.  That in many ways is a, is a great thing in some ways, for me as an individual, was a challenging thing because,  with everything going on in the last few years, being a,  white male CIS gender hetero cop Marine, I was just, the epitome of everything wrong in the world to a lot of people there.

 So that, that, that made law school interesting. but again,  as, as we discussed earlier,  the difficult things you go through in life are so good for you. Anything worth, anything really worth doing is, is likely to be difficult and anything really difficult is. It's usually worth doing.

And, those experiences ended up being great. I mean,  if you want to really learn who you are,  go to a place where. You're surrounded by a lot of people who think you're a bad person. Just, just looking at you, 

Meriwether: [00:02:51] I'm going to school in London. I'm kind of, yeah. But, but you, you make a good point in that.

You've learned. To choose your battles. You learn, the value of niggas  and getting along with people and who you, you really need to get along with. No, you really don't.  there is, I can imagine that in that situation at law school student in a very diverse, university setting, that you had. You gained skills that you really probably wouldn't have gained anywhere else you will use.

Certainly you will use as a lawyer. because the  the Marine Corps teaches some little tiny bit of charm offensive, but. It's definitely needed being able to negotiate and be, easy to get along with an attorney. That's a great school. Go ahead. 

Collin: [00:03:40] Yeah. So, I made some, some great friends there and, something happened that ended up, being very relevant to everything going on right now.  We're, we're in the midst of all these protests, that were sparked by, the incident involving George Floyd and, and there's,  these calls for defunding the police and so on and so forth. This was, starting to, to happen in a significant way when I started law school, with, with the incident involving Mike Brown.

And so some of my classmates were very involved in the black lives matter movement, and I wanted to understand that better. and I, I wanted as a cop,  I knew that I wanted to be involved down the road with policy and with improving, not just myself as a cop and improving my profession, improving my, my agency.

The guys that I work with, the, one of the things, one of the roles that, that I work in is as an instructor. And so I want it to be better at, at that. And so I sought out opportunities to engage with people who are involved in that movement so that I could better understand it and understand what the real, gripes, if you will,  not,  for, for lack of a better word,  what, what were the issues at the heart of it?

And then, I got very close with a couple of classmates in particular. And on an event, that we called, you for Rutgers university, are you black blue? And it was, one of my classmates who was very involved in black lives matter, myself and a moderator who. was, a young black woman whose father and uncle were both police officers.

So she was an ideal moderator and we had this, town hall style panel discussion,  where we discussed the issue you used that were going on at the time. And, I was very proud of that. It went really well, and I wish that, we could have more of that. Cause I think that the conversation that we had there, for the people who were part of it, I think it was very valuable.

I imagine I can, I can imagine it was very unusual, but also,   from my perspective, as a, as a communications scholar, communications never hurts anything. It can only improve high conflict situations, which is what you're saying. Yeah. 

From my perspective,  so now. Currently I serve as a Sergeant in the Jersey City police department.

I'm in the patrol division. So I'm, I'm a boss out on the road in charge of guys. And I basically am a supervisor for a precinct, for all the guys on the road, usually on the midnight tour and, 

Blimey. So you are a Sergeant supervisor on the midnight shift. Yeah. 

Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. in addition to that, I'm a FBI certified hostage crisis negotiator serve as a team leader on the Hudson County, regional SWAT team for the, the negotiation section.

Firearms instructor, active shooter instructor instructing a in a number of capacities. So communication is always essential. whether you're dealing with a barricaded subject or you're, you're dealing with a cop as their supervisor or it's interpersonal relationships, or it's. A national level conversation about policing in America.

Communication is absolutely one of the problems from, from where I sit as a frontline supervisor in an urban police department. as far as communications go is that often times the people, involved in this conversation are okay. Too involved in politics. It's usually your police directors or chiefs who are politically appointed and who are often very concerned about keeping their job and saying the right thing and not, not letting their political boss or, Whatever the case may be.

They're, they're cautious. And they're also, and this isn't to say that there aren't chiefs and high level supervisors, or, or upper level management out there that aren't good cops. But most times they're so far removed from the street.   if, if you're talking to a director or a chief, they're usually 10, if not 15 or 20 years removed from really being out on the street and you, you combined that with the.

Political issues that I just mentioned, and you're gonna, you're gonna have a very different conversation with them then you're going to have with a frontline cop or supervisor,  what I mean? 

Meriwether: [00:08:58] So let me ask you a question then.  I, I completely value that you are coming to. Street interaction, street, conflict, interacting with people on the worst day of their lives.

Many of them,  with a tremendous amount of, wisdom and, and knowledge that, that your, your leaders in your chain of command, perhaps don't have like, luckily don't have,  How welcome. I mean, if they've, if they made,  but getting to be Sergeant supervisors, no walk in the park. So that's a, it seems to me that although they may not be.  and that situation themselves, they, they welcome what you're bringing to the community.

They're, they're welcoming your skillset, your knowledge get set at this time, but I wonder, is there any hope for change in the leadership to, to have much more, embrace what happens on the street from a perspective of,  Law knowledge and community relations. Although that's a hot topic. I don't mean it that way.

Just in general terms. Yeah.

Collin: [00:10:11] So you touched on something and that was a law knowledge and, and I don't want to, shift gears too dramatically, but something I think is. Really important in this conversation about, policing and that's education. And when I started out as a cop, I didn't have a college degree. I didn't, I had a high school diploma and, over the course of my career, I'm 17 years and some change into it now.

I've had, I've been very fortunate to have a tremendous amount of training,  and, and education, and not just formal education as far as college and law school, but,  education in policing. But that wasn't by accident. It was deliberate. I pursued that aggressively.  one of the. Big problems I see is that while the job has changed dramatically in the last almost 20 years, nevermind in the last 30 or 40 years,  the, the training has not the requirements have not.

The job is not keeping up with the times and what's expected of us and we're. We're doing a disservice, not just to the communities we serve, but I think even more so I would argue to the men and women who are asking to do that service to do that job. We're not arming them with the proper tools. We're not giving them the training and education that they need to do the job, the difficult job of policing in America today,  so education is a huge part of that. I, I would not have said 10 or 15 years ago, that having a college degree would make you a better cop necessarily because, and I, I think a lot of Marines would agree with this. I hope you would. Not to be harsh, but I know a lot of people with degrees who are not terribly bright, and I know a lot of really brilliant people who don't have a formal education that don't have degrees.

I wouldn't equate education with intelligence. 

Meriwether: [00:12:36] Right. Of course not. 

That being said, education.  is, is so helpful if for no other reason than it improves your ability to communicate, it improves your ability to communicate, but in almost every university, even highly politically influenced universities that are slanted to the left, to the right, which exists out there all over the place.

 There still is a requirement to demand and an expectation that you will leave there much more open minded, then you arrived and that's certainly been, been my experience and that, so, so here you go are now as you call yourself a warrior scholar, which I love, I eat that term up. I love it so much. but now you're in a position where you're seeing the need and you've identified a way to improve it now, just to kind of just validate what you just said.

I know a lot of. A lot of cops who have a bachelor's degree, many, many cops as they move along, have earned a bachelor's degree. And I would think that they would, every one of them would agree with you that it has improved their ability to communicate in their job.  but what are your thoughts? What is the plan now?

Do you have some thoughts about, and maybe activities planned to perhaps improve this situation for the police officers out there who are not receiving the training that they deserve? Certainly, but also, especially in a time where the police. and, and this season is cyclical. It seems to me, three years ago, five years ago, eight years ago, there was a season where the police were under great scrutiny.

So it it's, although it's happening right now. I think as this podcast ages, this will the situation will also have returned. 

Collin: [00:14:37] Right? 

Meriwether: [00:14:38] So in general, in general terms, and I'm, I'm hoping that you have a scheme in mind. 

Come on, give it up. 

 Collin: [00:14:48] So they're there a few things I want to do,  one of my problems, I, I guess it's a problem.

I don't know. It's a good problem to have is that I still haven't really figured out what I want to be when I grow up. So I, there's so many things that I, that I want to do. cause there's just so much out there that's worth pursuing, One of the things that I would like to be able to do, with, with the law degree is, to get involved with litigation involving, officers who are accused of excessive force.

I have a, a unique background and that I have all these instructor certifications as,  firearms, instructor, defensive tactics, and so on and so forth. I've been involved in a number of critical incidents on the job, myself and shootings and things of that nature. So, I have the experience and the qualifications paired with the education, where.

When somebody has been accused either rightly or wrongly of excessive force, I would like to be involved in, in that, as an expert witnesses essentially, to, to be able to come in and evaluate those scenarios and give an opinion, objectively based on facts. as, as I view them, from my perspective, with all of this, this background, along the same lines, I would also really love to teach.

I want to help people understand. These types of incidents and, to understand the challenges of policing and, the things that are being discussed and debated, in, in our country right now. So. I've applied to, NJCU for an adjunct professor position in the criminal justice department.  right now with this COVID stuff, everything is on hold.

So we'll, we'll see what happens with that. but I've found. Through my experience as an instructor, I found that I really have a passion for teaching. And, so I, I really like to pursue that, even if it's just part time as an adjunct. I think that that could be valuable for, for myself and for those that I would have the opportunity to engage with in a classroom.

I would also really like to get involved in policy and in transforming, my profession, as far as,  changing the standards, The police academy, just as one example of what I'm talking about, the police Academy has been roughly 22 to 26 weeks, depending on what county you go through and all of that, whether they offer an EMT certification or not, there's a few, there's a few variables, but it's usually somewhere between 22 and 26 weeks.

 that hasn't really changed in probably 30 years. And you talk to guys that are they're retiring from the job that have done their 25 years, 30 years. The Academy was 22 weeks when they went through. And well, what I've seen from talking to guys is there are. Many more, boxes to be checked and  many more areas covered, but they're just cramming more and more material into the same time period.

Not, I don't believe, not allotting the appropriate amount of time and attention to a lot of the subject areas that need to be taught. the law being one of them,  people people look at a lot of these in everything is on video now. And people look at a lot of these incidents and   you have lawyers evaluating it, you have the public evaluating it.

And so,  how did this cop get it wrong? As far as the law goes, Well, how can you expect a cop who got a two or three week block of instruction on the law to be out there in the street, making decisions,  like a judge would while they're under stress with absolutely minimal education and training.

Right, but that's not a fair expectation. It's it is fair that we have gotten to a place where we expect and demand more of our police officers. What's not fair is to impose that expectation without giving them more training and education. So that's something that I think really needs to change and that I talked to, to be able to get involved in.

Meriwether: [00:19:36] Well, I, I, I love that you unpack that so well, I think that perhaps most people don't know much about how police officers are trained and you're right there, there is a tremendous expectation and they are under constant observation from the public, not just leadership and not just their community, but the entire public. 

Collin: [00:20:04] Yeah. 

Meriwether: [00:20:05] And are just ordinary people,  I live, I live, as a matter of fact, we have had sort of a turnover in police chiefs in the last 10 years, but. For awhile, our police chief had come from Newark, New Jersey. And because I'm on here with you right now, I can't call his name. But, he was with us for I think, three years.

And then he moved up to Montgomery County, Maryland, I think, which is a whole different thing, but I just have the town of hundred thousand people and surrounded by Townsville, a hundred thousand people here in coastal, Virginia. And policing here is very different than policing in major cities. That's just no two ways about it.

We may have 40 murders a year 

Collin: [00:20:51] here, 

Meriwether: [00:20:52] but we have a whole lot of nickel and dime crime. Right. 

Collin: [00:20:55] And, 

Meriwether: [00:20:56] and that's very upsetting for this population, which is basically a mil military population then the largest Navy base in the world is right here. Portsmouth Naval hospital at shipyard and NOB. So there's also a perspective that where up police officer will be serving.

I don't think. Factors very much into their training and it should,  police in Portsmouth, Virginia are not going to encounter the kinds of problems that police inNewark, New Jersey are going to encounter as well, as well as cultural norms and morals, for the community. I think that that. It's something that is often a problem.

 Occasionally I've encountered a police officer here who has come from another culture and they're, they're unfamiliar with our customs.  and they can come across as offensive because they are unfamiliar with them. And so there is just from a communications perspective, my tiny little lane of that, I can see tremendous room for improvement, much less on, much more important things like you're talking about with respect to the law and knowing the law and, sort of being able to communicate and negotiate better with people in the community, on the subject, in a crisis situation. 

Collin: [00:22:24] You touch on a really important, point there. And that's that policing. Every community is unique.  When we have these conversations about policing in America, The vast majority of the time, people talk about the police as this, this one giant entity and they're all the same.  okay. Every single agency has its own culture has its own own SOPs and policies and customs.

The agencies are each as different and unique as the communities that they serve. And so,  just as one example, to take this, this call to defund the police, maybe in some communities, possibly that might be a reasonable conversation, right? It may be appropriate to say, how are we spending our funds in this community?

And is there a room. To take some of the money that we're putting into the police department and put it into other programs that might be reasonable in the city where I work nine, literally 99% of the budget is salaries. There is very little money spent on training on equipment, on things other than just paying guys to show up to work.

So when you talk about defund the police,  in, in my city and my agency, what that means is shrink the police department. Because if you, if you shrink the budget, that it is an inescapable reality, you're gonna, you have to have fewer cops, 

Meriwether: [00:24:10] the direct proportion. 

Collin: [00:24:12] Right. And where I work, given the circumstances right now, that would be a terrible idea.

And ironically, the people who would suffer most, if that were to happen would be the people of color in the worst parts of the city, where they need the police the most. And I think that it's really unfortunate that, The conversation is often dominated by the vocal minority who I think often have more, extreme views or, or views that are, more towards the end of the spectrum than a lot of the people who would be closer to center.

many, many people in those communities are demanding if, if not begging for more. Police in their community. they want, they want to see beat cops. They want cops out there walking around,  which is great. But first you have to have enough cops and cars that can respond quickly just to the high priority jobs that are coming in to be able to do that.

Meriwether: [00:25:17] Of course. I don't, I don't talk about it very often, but I'm trying to sort of integrate it more. much of my work writing about Marines these last 22 years has been inspired by. The courage and the courage of the ordinary Marine I've encountered in my life.  and, but it's because of I've survived a lot of trauma and I've survived, been a victim of random crime and not so random crime.

And, there have been times when police officers saved my life, just. Well, there's just no two ways about it and the life of my child. so I, I'm a little, a little bit biased in the sense of. I can't, I would be dead certainly more than once if the police did not respond when I needed them at that exact moment.

However, I wonder if you see, and, and your thoughts about the, the, what I believe is a cycle. There's a terrible event that's publicized and there's outrage and outcry and demands that are born of tremendous, immediate frustration. It's very real and very fair, but it dies down to a, to a place of cooling off.

And I wonder if you see value in that cycle. And in this particular season, What your thoughts are about this? The topic of defund, the police, as it, as it is cools off, like you've said, you, you see it as something that should be localized considered on a local level, not any kind of a broad level, which I think everyone agrees with you that there's degrees of this, but also what can be born from your knowledge and perspective, what can be born of this season that would benefit that perhaps isn't being talked about quite yet, that would benefit both the police and the community after this,  national tragedy and trauma.  yeah. 

Collin: [00:27:34] So one of the complaints that I've heard more recently in relation to this cycle, as you put it, is that while nothing has changed nad I don't think that that's a fair assessment.

I think when you look at when, when you evaluate policing, since I think it's probably fair to say that Ferguson, Missouri and Mike Brown was a, a tipping point that that was the first major incident in our modern era. that, that spurred a lot of this. So if you were to take stock of what has happened since then to say that nothing has changed, I don't think is an accurate assessment.

It's a, it's a fair complaint. And perception is reality. And so if that is the perception of a lot of people, then, then that is their reality.  they're angry because they feel it, nothing has changed. Exactly. But that is that perception. I think the responsibility for that lies with our leaders, both political and the leaders in policing need to get out there and explain to people how we are changing, because we are, the camera's being just one example of, of men, that was something that was emerging at the time as a new technology and is now really the standard 

Meriwether: [00:29:08] it's mandatory, really 

Collin: [00:29:10] most places if mandatory and that was spurred by the,  starting with Ferguson and the incidents that have come since then, that has, that has become the standard. So.   that's just one example of many changes that have occurred. So to say,  that nothing has changed, I don't think is, is accurate. that being said, obviously people want more change.

And so,  where we've changed thus far is not enough.  Where do we go from here? And, and now we're faced with some important questions and then some real challenges.  Obviously I already put it out. I think that the standards for training and education needs to be one of the big changes.  that's something that to some degree has to be evaluated on a more local level.

For, for New Jersey there are state standards you have what's called the PTC, the police training commission. That is a state entity that establishes, standards for training police officers. And then that gets pushed down to the County level.  New Jersey is kind of unique in that we are made up of a lot of municipalities, a lot of small towns.

So we have counties, but we don't  really have County police for the most part like you do in many places in the South or out West, we have municipal police officers. that that are responsible for, for the bulk of, and so your a municipal police officers get sent to a County police Academy who gets their standards from the state PTC.

There's no. So federal standard outside of federal law enforcement, there's no nationally accepted standard. For training in policing. That's maybe something we need to look at. 

Meriwether: [00:31:04] Is that something you would, you would, participate in in may? 

Collin: [00:31:09] I would love to. I would love to, I, I, I hope that if I continue, pursuing the, the training and education, if I continue the path that I'm on, that I'll get to a point where I could be looked at as somebody who should be involved in that conversation. 

Meriwether: [00:31:25] I think you could turn that around Collin, turn that around and, and do it. I mean, is there, I don't know anybody who would be a better candidate to at least initiate the conversation in order of it than you. 

Collin: [00:31:38] I appreciate that.

We'll see, we'll see what happens. It's, it's one of the things on my to do list if you will. So,  we'll, we'll see. but it's, it's funny,  with that stuff, there are a lot of people who, who want to be involved in the conversation. And I think a certain amount of that is luck, 

And, and as, as Marines, I think, there's a.  many of us believe in making your own luck through preparation and that,  that's something I'm working on, but a lot of it,  is, is just dumb luck being the right person, but also being in the right place at the right time. there are a number of factors that you just can't control.

So I'll focus on controlling what I can and preparing myself as much as I can, so that when opportunities arise, I can, I can meet them, but,  we'll see 

Meriwether: [00:32:35] I'm going to do something that you're, that, that Marine officer did back then. And I'm going to say, okay, Oh, well, Collin. Well, of course, of course you just wait, you just wait for your moment to arrive because, because God knows you can't make it happen.

There, I  have laid down the gauntlet for you.

I mean, I could see it. I don't see, I don't see any barrier to you   reaching out on a, to a federal level and saying, look,   I know this, I know this patch of turf really well. We have got to consider making a federal standard for local police we've got to, and you certainly are not the first person to bring that up in the recent two or three weeks.

And, but again, you, you come to the table with such experience and, scholarly knowledge. And so I don't, I don't know who could be a better candidate to 

Collin: [00:33:30] One of the ways that are, I'm hoping to to break into that conversation, to, to be a catalyst for some of these changes Is starting, starting local.

And I, I think that,  I may be in the right place and now may be the right time. Jersey city is an amazing place, but if for, for many reasons, but chief among them, it's been listed as the most diverse city in America for a number of years running it really is an amazing cross section of, of America.

it's literally the,  the gate to America and a lot of ways, I mean, Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty are associated with New York city. They're in Jersey City, right? 

Meriwether: [00:34:28] That's right. It is, it is an ancient, it's really in an American terms, not anywhere else in the world, but for America, it is an ancient, melting pot Jersey city is.

I mean, I don't think anybody is unaware of the, but the opportunity, the number of cultures, which are first generation there remained that way, but also the opportunity,  that so many entrepreneurs in that city. Oh yeah. And so 

Collin: [00:34:59] There's so much going on. And my, my point with bringing that up is that if there was a place that could be a model and an example for other places in New Jersey and across the country I think it's Jersey city for, for a lot of reasons. And  it's a big city model like New York, where things that are needed there or things that would work there wouldn't necessarily apply in other places. It's a midsize city,  that. We're where you would encounter everything in anything that you might encounter just about anywhere else in the country.

And so I think that it's a great place to try to set the standard. If we're talking about standards,  that's a great place to start. And at the state and local level, one of the things that I've seen, that the kind of.

It bothers me, but I, I see it as an opportunity. When you look at many other professions, the legal profession, for example, attorneys have to accumulate continuing education credits. Throughout their career doctors have to do the same thing 

Meriwether: [00:36:19] is that right? Every 

Collin: [00:36:20] license fees you have to continually attend training and education throughout your career.

That's not required for police officers. Why not? Right. Why is it that,   obviously the biggest issue with policing is his use of force right now. You go through defensive tactics training in the Academy, that is a perishable skill. Any Marine will tell you anybody who's ever done combatives of any kind will tell you that as a perishable skill, you need to maintain that skillset you as a cop, you get it in the Academy.

And you don't ever have to do it again. That's, there's something, there's something wrong with that. Yeah.  and again, we're, it's not fair to the cops that were asking to do this job because how can they be expected to go out on their own time and on their own dime and put in the time and the effort to do that training when they're being asked, they're being forced in many cases to work overtime because we don't have enough guys out there on the road there.

They're doing all kinds of other things on top of they're human beings. They have to, they have families, they have other obligations. We need to make that a part of the standard. We need to establish a requirement for continuing education throughout your career. You need to go and get a certain number of hours or credits annually in defensive tactics, in  legal education, in negotiations,  or deescalation, if you will.

So, 

Meriwether: [00:37:59] So what you're proposing really is, very reasonable,but also it could be done in the same way that the medical and other professions allow it and that it, so that it wouldn't interfere with your earning your income or interfere with the hours that you need to, and, first of all, I didn't know, that was the case for police officers, that they didn't have any kind of continue continue education.

Collin: [00:38:25] And in some  places it may be, sorry, not to interrupt you in some places. It may be in New Jersey it's not in places it's not. 

Meriwether: [00:38:35] So the other thing is that you're what you're talking about here is really when I kind of needle you to go big with this, you're saying, but if I could set a precedent here 

Collin: [00:38:46] exactly.

Meriwether: [00:38:47] Then, if 

Collin: [00:38:48] we, and we can start here and say, okay, here's, here's a model that we've created that we're implementing in a place like Jersey city that's that's working and this is a model that could be emulated by other places, 

Meriwether: [00:39:05] study it. So you could study it after,  as it progresses and years out.

And then you could,  determine the actual, not outcome, but impact of it.  and see if it does make a difference and I feel , it certainly couldn't have hurt. 

 And, like with these other professions, you could have a variety of different trainings that would appeal to the talents and interests of the different police officers that you have. So I, I, I think t's fascinating, a fascinating, thought plan. So when are you put that in place C ollin what are you, how are you chasing that though? 

Collin: [00:39:43] So it's, it's one of the reasons that I thought a legal education would be helpful  it's one of the frustrations that, that I've, dealt with is,  you can have the greatest intentions and you can be, qualified if you will, but a lot of times, credentials are important  if you want to be heard,  the initials in front of, or at the end of, your name sometimes they matter,  and being heard. 

Meriwether: [00:40:17] So we have gone through so much today and I've learned so much that I didn't know about you,  and policing, but also a little MAP 7 history that  I, I was unaware of.

I, I value what you're saying here about thinking about using the community you're in as sort of a starting place to consider,  improvements. And I'm, I'm sure that you would not have come to that had you not pursued the education you have  and again, I didn't realize that you kind of have this perspective that you.

 have been given an opportunity at life,  that you, because of your combat service with three 25,  it's a very illuminating podcasts for me. And certainly I'm sure very inspiring to Marines.  I think that many times Marines do believe that they kind of have to follow a certain path, but to do something else, and when they hear a story like yours, they can say, Hey,  maybe, maybe what's kind of nagging at me to pursue is not so unusual. And maybe it is absolutely what I should be doing because it's bugging me that I'm not doing this.  like you were saying, saying about learning about how much you just really want to learn.

So, Thank you, Colin. Thank you so much for this, this opportunity. And, it's been a, it's been a great 

honor. 

Oh, likewise. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And I would just say, as a closing remark, if you will,  you touched on something about Marines,  sometimes feeling that they have to go a certain route, whatever the case may be  if there's one thing that I, I think, all my brother and sister Marines, should agree with it it's that we can do anything. I mean, you look at, You look at our history as, as a Marine Corp, as the United States Marine Corps and the people who have gone before us who have done just such. Incredible inspirational things, that give us the fuel to push forward. there's no shortage of examples, from any generation up to the present, there, there should be no doubt in the mind of anybody who's earned that title. That. You can do anything. You just have to decide that you want to do it, whatever, whatever that may be, and you have a tremendous,  family around you, wherever you are, that will help you to do it. That will, that will be beside you.

And help you in any way that they can. I mean, I,  I've, I've been incredibly fortunate in that I've encountered Marines along the way, who have helped me, who have led me, who've inspired me. Who've helped me in a number of ways. And I do everything I can whenever the opportunity presents itself to help my fellow Marines as well to, to pay that back so whatever it is that you're that you're thinking about doing get after it they'll do it. There's, there's nothing that can stop you. And there are so many of us out here that will help you, so. Perfect. 

Perfect. I love it. All right. So Collin,  I thank you so much. 

Collin: [00:44:00] This was a, this was fun. I wish you a lot of luck. I hope it, is successful talk to you soon. 

Meriwether: [00:44:06] Bye. 

Collin: [00:44:07] Take care.

  All right. Y'all wasn't that like super inspiring. I find him very inspiring. And again, he's definitely somebody you would want the trenches with you. Anyway. Semper Fidelis hit subscribe and thank you.

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